Curse

asd334 · Aug 27, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Are necros being discriminated?

Seroiusly are they because I have a necro and they kick ass.

I can kill Warriors on my own and rangers and mesmers. So if they are so good and well balanced why dont people like them

I noticed this because when ever im at Tomb of the primevil and try to join partys they nevery have even one necro even in balanced groups.

Also when I try to join guilds people are like O umm we don't need a necro

i can understand when its a spiker or a warrior rush

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that

chris_nin00 · Aug 27, 2005, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by asd334

Are necros being discriminated?

Seroiusly are they because I have a necro and they kick ass.

I can kill Warriors on my own and rangers and mesmers. So if they are so good and well balanced why dont people like them

I noticed this because when ever im at Tomb of the primevil and try to join partys they nevery have even one necro even in balanced groups.

Also when I try to join guilds people are like O umm we don't need a necro

i can understand when its a spiker or a warrior rush

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that

Please share your build. I want to own warriors and rangers and mesmers. Please tell.

EchoSex · Aug 27, 2005, 09:39 PM // 21:39

No but I've been stereotyped as some whiney kid who listens to crappy "emo" music (Whatever the hell that means.)

That, I honestly don't get. I don't even use the drug addict hair on my necro - he looks like me: an aging man who's angry at the world.

Mercury Angel · Aug 27, 2005, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Necromancers are often not good enough to warrant a team slot, except in specialized builds.
Consider this-

One of the main Bloodline gimmicks is to heal while you damage the opponent. Look at Aura of Restoration- Most ele's will drop this (except when they need the enchantment for Ether Renewal) because the healing is unneeded most of the time, and not enough to matter while under focused fire.
The same concept holds true for blood spells.
You could damage while you heal being an elementalist already. (Particularly well with Ether Renewal)

The only blood skills most teams want from a necromancer are Blood is Power {E}, Dark Fury, Offering of Blood {E}, Order of Pain, and Order of the Vampire {E}.

The wells aren't that bad, but what're the odds you'll get them off before the enemy gets in a Putrid? And why not get your own Putrid Explosion off instead? The damage is decent, AoE, and armor ignoring. Putrid has taken entire teams down through chain reactions before, and even though one person can't spam it and wipe a team out, it's still as damaging as before.

Then you've got Curses.
Buffing your own party with defensive and offensive spells is almost always easier, and more consistent, than attempting to debuff people. The hexes tend to have long recharge times or high costs, and because of the way the game works, your only feedback are sparse visual effects for conditions, and a pink pointing down arrow on their bar.
Hexes also tend to paint a visible 'bullseye' on the person you cast them on, giving the enemy party forewarning. If it's to mislead them... why even do it? Why not save the energy and skill slot and just surprise them right off the bat?
On the other hand, Order spam makes for some massive damage increases where removal really doesn't matter, while Aegis, stances, and Ward Against Melee tend to handle attacks very well on their own.
Rend Enchantments and Lingering Curse {E} are the most potent enchantment removals in the game. Neither of which needs all that many points into curses to be effective.

Death-
Minions have awful pet AI, and tend to work against you when you get too many. Edge of Extinction and AoE's turn a huge army into dust in just a few seconds, as do popular smiting builds. Or, they could use Healing Seed and turn the damage into massive healing which you can't cut off, since minions are as bad as pets.
Or, on a rare occasion, someone will instead opt to run in and cast Verata's Aura and swipe a good chunk of your minions from you.
The occasional team uses Tainted Flesh {E}, but thing people pull from here tends to be Putrid Explosion.

Soul Reaping-
There're enough debates about it alone already. No skills linked to it, and a conditional energy source. It was great with spirit spam around, giving massive regular boosts of energy as the many MANY spirits slowly died.
Spirit spam is gone though, so it's back to the usefulness it had before that innovation.

---

Now, can you tell me why someone would want an unknown quantity necromancer to use against an unknown quantity team, when they could instead grab people to buff their own team?
You buff each other pretty much the same way every time, with most of the same buffs. Not as much of a need to watch the other team's builds.

It's not that necromancers are bad, per se... It's that it's definitely easier, and sometimes notably better, just to grab other class primaries, and toss in a couple of the must have skills from here.

I've played Monk, Mesmer, Necromancer, Elementalist and Ranger RP and PvP, and I occasionally PvP with a warrior. I've loved my underdog characters, but in retrospect... It really is true that some jobs could have been handled better by another primary.

Just look at what Ether Renewal does to some roles-

Smiter monks... Just look at E/Mo's. Infinite energy, massive healing for themselves, and great damage. They can go on, and on, and on, with ease.
I don't think monks are a contest in that respect. With the right skills, they also help fill out a few other rules, including, but not limited to protection enchanting and condition removal.

Diversion spam. It's very costly, and I sometimes found myself unable to afford it as a mesmer, even with energy management. Thanks to Ether Renewal, I can spam level 12 diversion as much as I want on an E/Me, in addition to a handful of other domination spells. It also makes me more resillient, thanks to the bonus healing.

Dark Fury + Order of Pain spam. An E/N can spam both of those and be restored to full energy and health rapidly, thanks to Ether Renewal. No outside healing or buffs necessary. Necromancer primaries have difficulty maintaining both, as they average to 4 energy loss per second, or 12 pips, and 32 health loss per second (480 health character), or 16 pips.

To summarize:
What is it you do, as a primary necromancer, that another profession couldn't do better? What is it that makes you worth the character slot? I'd honestly like to know, as I'm fairly disappointed with the Necromancer profession these days (along with the Elementalist and Mesmer, although I do love some of their skills. The elementalist is most often used to emulate OTHER professions with its own skills chosen for their support abilities... When its class is supposed to be the damage focused one, based on the description. In other words, it's fallen far from the original concept. Mesmer Fast Casting doesn't bring much to the table either, and after trying an e/me for control I don't think I'll be going back =\ 16 Fast Casting to cut times in half, and no mesmer spell takes more than 3 seconds to begin with? -_-)

If you can answer that well, you'll know what to say to the next group you come across that refuses you.

katalyst · Sep 01, 2005, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Yes, i agree with Mercury Angel, but there are other spells in the death catagory other then minions :P.

I have a necro and i can take down a warrior pretty fast... and i take down mobs faster then warriors on 1 monster, or maybe that party really sucked... anyway, my necro is the sucidal sin build, but a little modified.

Yes their attruibutes are stupid, soul reaping is much of no use anymore, but who uses it for it only regenerates your mana from an unanimated ally dying. But i do have to disagree of the minion being an awful pet, have you ever seen people run thirsty rivers? they do it with minions! and guess what? they're a necro class *GASP*

I can really careless if people need a necro or not, if they don't need a good backup healer/buffer then its their fault.

The main reason nobody likes necro is becuase of the poor players that use them, same as rangers. I've pvped with necros and rangers and suprisingly i do exceedinly well due to the fact of good team work and support. Of course they will suck without support and team work, but hell wouldn't any class be the same?

Lets look here:
Rangers: idots agroing the whole entire map and think they're still good.
They have pets in Rof
"OMG I WASN'T READY I HAVE MY RUN BUILD!!!!!!1111ONE"
They don't know what the hell they are doing.
Necros: "OH GOD NECROS ARE TOO HARD TO USE!!11 AND CONFUSING!"
Use tooo many minions in an unesscessary situation

Thats probably the main reason why nobody likes necros, the fact of POOR PLAYERS, not attruibutes and skills.

I'm just speaking off my mind

, if you don't agree be my guest and argue

strungout · Sep 01, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by katalyst

Yes their attruibutes are stupid, soul reaping is much of no use anymore, but who uses it for it only regenerates your mana from an unanimated ally dying.

just to clear you up on this... you gain energy from ANY deaths near you with soul reap.

but even then your attributes are still probably better off somewhere else other than soul reap for pvp

Alura Pyro · Sep 01, 2005, 06:16 PM // 18:16

emo means emothional